Dive In | From Stem Cells to STEM Communities with Jeevana Thavarajah

Unlock the secrets of stem cell research and regenerative therapies with our special guest, Jeevana Thavarajah, a master's student at King's College. Discover how early influences and inspiring science communicators like Dr. Emily Grossman and Dr. Robert Winston shaped her passion and led her to a unique program that marries scientific study and business acumen. Jeevana is the visionary behind a groundbreaking educational platform designed to demystify complex academic topics for university students. Scientia News!

Check out Scientia News here: https://www.scientianews.org/

Join us as we explore the personal and professional journey of a young Eelam Tamil woman breaking barriers in the STEM field. Hear her candid reflections on overcoming imposter syndrome and familial pressures, and the importance of self-belief and perseverance. This narrative is not just about science; it's about representation, mentorship, and the journey of personal growth. We also highlight how attending educational talks and seeking hands-on experiences can ignite a passion for niche scientific fields, encouraging students to harness the plethora of opportunities available to them.

Chapters

• 0:00 Stem Cells and Regenerative Therapies
• 11:36 Building a STEM Community Online
• 21:17 Overcoming Imposter Syndrome in STEM
• 26:28 Exploring STEM Opportunities and Research

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hi everyone, welcome back to Cameron's Lab. Today I am here with Jeevana. I'm super excited to have her today because I don't know if you saw before, but we had another collaboration over on her page where I helped to write an article about women in biomedical engineering and then also just a little bit about myself. So if you haven't looked at that already, please be sure to do so. And then I'm just going to give you a quick introduction to her, because I feel like she's one of the most amazing people, absolutely supportive and just really, really cool.

Speaker 1: 0:25

So she is currently a master's student at King's College, studying stem cells and regenerative therapies. She actually graduated from Queen Mary University, which is where I'm studying at the moment, and she did that for biology. She is the founder for Scientia News, which is this just amazing community of different volunteers and all working together to create this large news platform where it's basically just breaking down research articles that make it easier for us to understand. Super excited to have you. Thank you for joining me. Okay, so can we talk about your journey into this? Like study for your masters of regenerative therapies and then stem cells. So how did you get into it and what really inspired you?

Speaker 2: 1:05

so when I was in school, um, during gcse and my ib, when I was studying ib as well, um, our teachers like mentioned about stem cells but they never went into much detail about like the applications of stem cell. That we knew what it was about and I sort of had like a little light bulb moment when they were like you can change it into a different type of cell. But that means you can, you know, try and cure diseases or like repair tissues. And then when I was, I think, yeah, when I'd started IV, I went to a couple of talks and I met Dr Emily Grossman, who's a science communicator, and she talked about regenerative therapies.

Speaker 2: 1:45

And there was a famous topic that went around in 1997 called the vacanti mouse I don't know if you heard it or the ear mouse, where I think researchers in America they put cartilage cells in the mouse and like an ear shape came out of the back of the mouse. Yeah, so there was a whole controversial topic about it, but I think that was sort of the back of the lungs. Yeah, so there was a whole controversial topic about it, but I think that was like sort of the start of regenerative medicine. Um, and I also got to meet dr robert winston um, who um did research in ivf studies and he also wants to try and use embryonic stem cells in reproductive diseases, um. So those like small, small things was something I was very, very interested in, and so when I came into Queen Mary again they mentioned it very briefly about stem cells and also it was a very interesting medicine as well. So it was quite interesting to like put those two together. So doing this master's has like been very interesting and I'm glad I'm doing like that topic.

Speaker 1: 2:41

Fascinating. I think it's really interesting how, like, just listening to little things in class yeah spark your exactly, exactly, especially they don't go farther into then. You're just there, like yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2: 2:51

What about the rest of?

Speaker 1: 2:53

it. Um. So, just based on that, so now you're doing um, just continuing your studies, and also you're graduating soon, which is pretty exciting. Yeah, congratulations, thank you. Um, so, now that you're graduating, what are some insights that you might be able to write just like into the master's program at Kean?

Speaker 2: 3:08

So my master's program is called stem cells and regenerative therapies from bench to market. So we're not just learning like the science side of it, like in the lab, but we're also learning about the commercialization and how like investors will like buy into the technology. So learning all those different aspects, not just science but the business aspect, is very like eye-opening, because we don't always just have to learn about like being in the lab all the time, like there's other opportunities like consultancy, analyst, um. So I feel like that course is like a massive, like all-rounder.

Speaker 1: 3:41

So yeah, definitely yeah I think it's cool as well that you get to do the business side of that. Yeah, most of the time they're just like oh yeah, you could sell that when you get. Yeah, exactly, tell us how exactly it's nice that.

Speaker 2: 3:51

Yeah, that's all right. Yeah, we even had like a module where we had to do presentations on different topics, so we had to talk about products that weren't able to be, like, commercialized if there were controversies, um, and understanding, like profit, like how much did the company make from that and we met, um someone from astrazeneca who came and talked about the commercialization of certain therapies. So it's quite cool, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:13

So, um, I just wanted to go back to what you mentioned before. So, with the tissue engineering and stem cells, like you mentioned, it was like a high level of what your teachers give and that was the same for myself. Yeah, but nobody really goes deep into it and it'll give you that really like substantial information to keep you interested. Yeah, why do you think that is like? Why does nobody really dive deep into it?

Speaker 2: 4:31

um, I don't know, I think, like for me, for example, I think especially at the time. So when I started my master's, my professor actually told me like back then and he was like early 2000s or 1990s he said that when he had done his course and phd and he was trying to find jobs in stem cells, not many people were talking about it then still, and so even he said like he was working companies for stem cells but then they got bankrupt because at that time it just wasn't popular and because there's a lot of controversies around stem cells, I feel like people are scared to like bring it up more. But I feel like now, in future, I think regenerative medicine is going to actually be very, very important. Yeah, definitely, um, which is why I think that I mean I hope now that people in school are actually learning about tissue engineering and stem cells there's actually, like that is a very important topic let's be sure, yeah, from my like basic knowledge of tissue engineering.

Speaker 1: 5:20

We did a course on it just last semester actually. Yeah, so that was one of my first, I guess, like deep dives, like I said yeah to tissue engineering and then regenerative medicine and it was really cool. Yeah, no, exactly, I think like students would really be interested in learning a bit more about that. Yeah, early on.

Speaker 2: 5:34

So, despite like the controversies and all of the things, I feel like the earlier you introduce people to it, the better it is and I feel like with especially stem cells and regenerative therapies, you're actually combining science and engineering as well, so it could open up, you know, more paths for students as well, so I feel like that should be like talked about much more.

Speaker 1: 5:53

It's only agree, yeah and then um, were there any? I guess, like other I know you mentioned like the business side, but back to the science side of your degree, were there any like key topics or key skills that you've found, that you've learned um?

Speaker 2: 6:07

in terms of my course itself, most of it's more like doing journal clubs and, you know, talking as well, because I think our main like project in terms of this course is, you know, getting investors to buy the product. So I feel like, in terms of the master's course, I've done more about like talking in front of people, um presenting work, rather than just doing like the actual science, like research side of it. But it's also very interesting to learn new diseases, like rare diseases, because our professors say, like a lot of doctors, they don't know much about the rare diseases because there's not a cure for it, whilst for us, like we'd know the cure for, like those rare diseases like crohn's, a cure for it, whilst for us, like we'd know the cure for, like those rare diseases, like Crohn's disease, for example, and like rare blood cancers, a lot of stem cells are being used to try and find a cure for it.

Speaker 1: 6:51

So, following up on that, do you get to work with doctors in terms of research because, like you mentioned, there might be things that you know that maybe they're not quite working on, or do you get to know, like, maybe, how to work with them in the future?

Speaker 2: 7:01

um, so my course itself. I didn't get that much of an opportunity to do that, but I did. We did have like a module where we had stem cells and regenerative therapies, where we actually had medical students with us like studying about it, um, but outside of it, I actually went to king's college hospital, um, and I volunteered there, like when I was in secondary school. But I went there again, um, and when I was working there I used to volunteer in the hematology department. So I asked one of the managers I work with that I'm still in contact with she and she said like to come and she will try and find someone like to talk to me, and so we went to the department.

Speaker 2: 7:34

There was like a stem cell department for blood cancer. So I got to meet the doctors there and was just doing like a sort of shadowing experience and then, um, using stem cells to see if it's made a difference on blood cancer patients. So it's quite amazing to see, like, how now stem cells is becoming more popular, because I feel back then it just wasn't, you know, talked about and especially with cancer itself, people go through chemotherapy and it doesn't, you know, work out, and I feel like stem cells will be like the next big.

Speaker 1: 8:02

Thing yeah, I think it's really cool, like even like mentioned with like how it's becoming more popular now, but also just like seeing that you yourself are taking the initiative to really get put yourself out there and learn a little bit more. So I highly recommend this. It's all the other women's thing put yourself out there, take the initiative. You've heard it here. Um, can I ask what was your research thesis focused on for your masters?

Speaker 2: 8:25

so right now it's very early stages, so I'm still researching into it, but we need to make a novel stem cell technology um for a rare disease, and so we basically need to pitch it to our professors, who will be like our investors and, just like you know, sell it to them. So it's just based off that um. So it's very early stages right now because we're still like choosing, choosing which disease that we want to do and the type of stem cell that we want to focus on. But it's quite hard because we now have to think in a more business mindset rather than a science mindset. So we need to make sure, like licensing, making sure like who we can collaborate with, that could, you know, give us some money to you know? You know, launch the product, for example, like the whole manufacturing cost. So there's like a lot more that we need to think about.

Speaker 1: 9:08

So the aim of it is just for us to, you know, sort of think as if we're like a businessman or a businesswoman so I think earlier we mentioned that that stem cells, like the fact like just for engineering isn't delved deep enough into during high school in biology. So I guess what would be your opinion in terms of how to get students more involved and like how can we start bringing it up more in those classes?

Speaker 2: 9:30

Yeah, I think there should be more like hands-on experiences. I think that's the main thing, especially with sciences. I think lab experience is very much needed and especially at my time it was very difficult to get lab experience, and obviously during covid as well.

Speaker 2: 9:43

Everything was locked down, locked down and um and even like in uni I didn't actually do anything specifically do with like stem cell research, and I feel like they should have that in biology as well, because I feel like they put that more for biomedical students or cancer student but for biology itself. I feel like they put that more for biomedical students or cancer students but for biology itself. I feel like it should be included. But yeah, I think for high schools they should also have in the curriculum some sort of lab experience or bringing someone in and talking about it, because maybe teachers don't have as much knowledge. So if they bring someone who's got expertise in it, then it would be good to you know.

Speaker 1: 10:19

Share that to the students but, yeah, I think that really worked well for me in high school as well, when they brought in somebody else. Yeah, exactly, listen to them and you know?

Speaker 2: 10:27

yeah, because I remember when I mentioned about dr emily grossman, when I went to see her, like that was actually an extra thing, like the teachers just told us, oh there's a talk going if you guys want to go, and I remember it was just me and, I think, another person from school in my whole, my whole like my school, and I saw other students as well, but from this one, but it wasn't like a big group, it was just like maybe like a good 10 20, yeah, a good 10 20, and I was just there like listening to this, like this is like the future and I feel like more people should, you know, hear about it. So, yeah, it should again taking the initiative.

Speaker 1: 10:56

That's what we've done so far, which is amazing. So I guess, speaking of taking the initiative, can we talk a little bit about science? And yeah, so, would you mind just um explaining what it is? I did try. In the beginning, you said it perfectly.

Speaker 2: 11:09

It'd be better if you explain what is science and news, and then what really motivated you to start it yeah, um, so science and news is a website where we have free articles and resources, um, and it's basically for the whole stem community, like anyone can just read it, and we just cut down like complicated topics into a much, you know, understanding manner. But anyone outside of stem can just read it for fun, you know, um, and we also have like free resources to help students for a levels and ib and gcc as well. Um, and the main main spark for that was during final year. We had a module called Project Skills and we had some tasks where we had to do a lay summary, which is try to break down complicated topics into an understanding manner. So they gave a whole list of topics and research papers and we had to choose a research paper or an article and then write it into a summary. And so when I was just looking at all the topics, the topic seemed so interesting, you know, and trying to put that in a way that everyone could understand, I was like that's a good technique as well for people to revise. So that was sort of an idea that came to me. I was just thinking there should be a site where we should have articles like that.

Speaker 2: 12:16

An idea that came to me. I was just thinking like there should be a site where we should have articles like that, because when we're in school, gcsc and a level ib, we'd have I don't know if you've used bbc bite size or, yeah, the human cluster, yeah, that bbc bite size or textbooks. They're all like cut down right to information that we understand by when we come home. Um, but I feel like when we come into university, all we have to do is read like so many papers, especially sciences, like 20, 30 pages even for me, like I can't, I would be just highlighting everything. I'm not even taking all the important information, I'm just highlighting everything. And it's so hard for me, especially like note-taking, like I don't know which information I need to take. Oh, that's important, right.

Speaker 2: 12:53

So that was another thing that sort of sparked it, because I was like, for university, I feel like there should be some sort of website as well for university students to try and get information quickly. So all of that together made me think, you know, we should have a website. So, and to be honest, I had no sort of like background or knowledge, like how do I start a website? Who do I like you know? So then I spoke to one of my friends that I knew back in primary school and sort of just gave her the idea, and I just spoke to a couple of friends like, oh, I just have this idea but I don't know if I'm actually going to do it. Um, and then my friend said like you know, I think you should do it. So then from there we, me and her we sort of worked together and sort of designed the website.

Speaker 1: 13:28

It was terrible looking at it at the beginning it was just brown ink.

Speaker 2: 13:33

this one, it was just brown. I had, I literally like whipped up a random logo within 30, 40 minutes, so the logo is completely different to what it is. Now, I don't know what, I just wanted something on there. But, yeah, and it's grown into something massive which I did not expect.

Speaker 1: 13:49

Yeah, really cool. So, speaking of just it growing into something massive. So you also now have volunteers that are able to work with you. They're really building this community around you, yeah, which is so cool. Yeah, talk about that as well yeah.

Speaker 2: 14:01

So obviously, like when I started, I just mentioned it to a couple of friends about my website and if you want to intro, if you're interested in writing, you can, um, but I mainly like started posting it on LinkedIn, um, and obviously now you can like do job posts. So I was thinking, you know, let's just try it on there. And I think at the beginning it was very hard to find people because obviously it's a completely new project. So people just had me looking at it like do I trust this? Is it a good opportunity? So at the beginning it was quite hard. I think we only had maybe five or six volunteers, so five writers, and then just me and my friend doing the website. And now it's turned into like like 65, 66, so uh, so yeah, I'm just like completely shocked.

Speaker 2: 14:43

And some of them were from queen mary's, I think, like probably you know people talking about it. So I even had like a person messaged me being like, oh, I heard it from like someone from queen mary about your website, like can I volunteer? So it's quite crazy, like people like hearing it from people and just talking about it and then you know, you know reaching out to me, being like, oh, do you have this opportunity, um and stuff like that. And so now, like the project's so big and we have so many people, um, some of the volunteers that I have there now I've given them role as like a subject manager, so like biology content manager, chemistry content manager, so that is sort of, you know, building up to big things and letting them also, you know, take the opportunity to lead a group of people and it's good to add to your you know, cv, like personal skills, like everything. So, yeah, that is so cool that's so cool.

Speaker 1: 15:25

Um so, what has it been like, I guess, for you building that community and like, really, I guess, linking all of us little stim people? Yeah, I know. Yeah, how's that been like?

Speaker 2: 15:35

um, yeah, generally, like I still process, like I'm talking to like connecting this many students together, um, like, for example, the, the international women's project that we did. Um, I think that was quite an emotional moment for me doing that because you know I was trying to get some girls in my website, um, the volunteers you know, to write about themselves, um, and a lot of them are from underrepresented backgrounds and so them talking about their passion right for stem and like them being like a woman in stem, which is a big thing, um, and like you know, with you talking about, you know, biomedical engineering, women in biomedical engineering, that that sort of thing and connecting everyone into like a big community and inspiring others. I think that's like my main thing. Like inspiring other people, and especially from ethnic like backgrounds as well in stem. Um, so, yeah, like just having that many people like under me like it's such like a big thing um, and, yeah, actually, yeah, enjoy it you're basically like a role model.

Speaker 1: 16:30

Well, not, basically you are. You are a role model now for other young women especially that are coming up, like you said, from ethnic backgrounds.

Speaker 2: 16:37

But yeah, it's so lovely to see and like, especially with the actual topics and stuff, like writing it, um, especially when they're writing about something that they're very, very passionate about and they reach out to me being like you know, thank you for letting me, you know, because I feel like a lot of, especially in journalism and scientific communication, I think they're very like specific companies are quite specific, like you want, they want you to write it in a specific way, whilst for me, I want them to write it in their way, like how they write it, but also like for everyone to understand. Um, and so, for example, I had a volunteer who wrote about a type of cancer and she even reached out to me saying, like you know, thank you for letting me write about it, because one of her family members had that, you know, type of cancer and she said like she felt like it was nice to write a topic about that so more people know about it. So it's all these small things you know other people can like connect to it. Um, yeah, I think I think there was another one where I did it on prostate cancer. That was another type of cancer that I'd done, and I even had people messaging on LinkedIn being like, oh, I had a family member who had this, you know, thank you for like talking about it.

Speaker 2: 17:40

Um, and also we also have maths and economics, which is another section we have, and even that, like people wouldn't expect you to write articles on it, but we've had like people write, you know, articles on it and it's done very well, so it's quite nice that it's, you know, growing yeah, it's nice because you're giving people an outlet as well, bringing in, like different volunteers that you have.

Speaker 1: 17:58

You mentioned that. It's not only, for example, when you did the International Women's Month, it's not just breaking down scientific articles, but you're also giving them an outlet to be, I guess, vulnerable, really To show what they're passionate about, and maybe family members as well. Yeah, yeah, have there been any challenges? Maybe not around that topic, but just with bringing in science and news. Have you been any challenges? Maybe not around that topic, but just like with bringing in science and news? Have you?

Speaker 2: 18:19

mentioned any challenges you've overcome. I think obviously, at the beginning, actually, you know, launching that project was obviously a big thing, like what website you know designer I should use and things like that, especially with no sort of knowledge behind it. And that's how, like I didn't have, like obviously I had my friend there, but like I didn't have like obviously I had my friend there, but like I didn't have much support around that. So me doing it on my own, like working day and night to think about that, how am I going to launch the project? And then, obviously, in terms of actually getting volunteers, like where am I going to find them? So, obviously, opening on social pages was like a big thing as well.

Speaker 2: 18:48

Um, and I think obviously at the beginning, like the difficult we had was obviously having like volunteers that would who are actually interested in, you know, doing it. Um, because they would like apply, be like yes, and like we email back, be like are you ready? And they're like no, or like, oh, they found another opportunity. Or they would say, oh, we thought this was like a paid job and so, and like to me that's not obviously like we put there's a volunteer opportunity, but it's sad to see, like for some people, like they just want it because they want to add it on their cv or you know, and it's not just that I, the reason I've also launched this is because I want to give opportunities for people because, for example, like in general, applying for jobs has been like such a draining process and it's hard like some people are like amazing and they get rejected and things like that. It's obviously hard to see that, even for us. Obviously, we work into like choosing who's actually really really good for it, but at the same time, we don't want to be too strict on that. We want to let people like you know, you know sort of flourish and give the opportunity, which is my you know, main thing, um.

Speaker 2: 19:47

So, yeah, I think that was a struggle, just finding the right people. I think that was the main thing. But right now, like the managers that I have, they're genuinely amazing, and my friend, manisha um, who's the managing director, she's also amazing behind the scenes, um, but I think the main thing you need is people, that who support your project and your values, like in general, and then just they'll just be there for you, like no matter what. I feel like that's like the main important thing. But yeah, tell me that, yeah, the right people, really, yeah, exactly it's the right people. Because if it's people that are, you know, not going to be supportive about it, it's just going to drain you and you just, you're just going to give up on it. So you just need the right people behind you.

Speaker 1: 20:25

So science news was obviously one of like your wonderful achievements so far, but it also made you into a role model for young women in stem, and I saw that you recently got recognized by stemets. You did an article with them. Would you mind talking about what it's been like not only being recognized by I guess it's like a journal but also to know that you're now like officially, ambitiously, yeah a role model for young women in stem?

Speaker 2: 20:51

um, yeah, I was like first completely shocked. Like you know, they reached out and asked can you write an article? I didn't even know they had like a section about, you know, inspiring women and it's an amazing website, an amazing organization, and I was inspired by one of the co-founders, dr A Marie, and yeah. So when they reached out and said, you know, write an article about science here it. And yeah. So when they reached out and said, you know, write an article about science here, it was like a big thing.

Speaker 2: 21:17

So when I saw the website itself, there's so many like popular, like inspiring women, like back in the days, and so for you know me to write an article about this massive project that I have, like I didn't expect it.

Speaker 2: 21:29

So I'm like still like I only was like it only came up like last week and I'm still like processing I only like it only came up like last week and I'm sort of still like processing it and it to see, like, especially as a Tamil woman I think that's another main thing especially as an Eland Tamil woman um, I'm probably like one of the first ones on there and I felt like representation for me is very, very important because I felt like for me I'm. I didn't have anyone like a role model, like someone who's Tamil or or south asian. That was inspired by it and I felt like if I had that, that would have been amazing. So I feel like for me to be on the website and maybe younger, you know, tamil women or south asian women seeing that like for them, they would be inspired by it, don't you?

Speaker 1: 22:04

are that.

Speaker 2: 22:04

That's a sample, that's been, um and yeah, being like one of the younger ones as well, like a lot of them are much you know older, like they complete their phd already, like the founders of a you know massive company, ceos, sort of thing. So it's like crazy to be in like that same you know area um.

Speaker 1: 22:24

So one of the other things that the article mentioned was just um a little bit about you dealing with things like imposter syndrome, which I feel like it's a big thing for us as women in the STEM industry. It's like most of us experience it at least once, so what has that been like for you?

Speaker 2: 22:37

um, yeah, I mean, I've had like a lot of hurdles with like in general as well, like I felt like even before I'd started Scientia, I always felt like I wasn't happy with myself, like I felt like I had to do more um, and I felt like I had to push myself and I felt like I've grown much more as a person compared to who I was like in like undergrad um. But yeah, it's always that fear of like failure, like that's my main sort of issue that I have and always feel like I'm not done enough um, and I think the one of the main thing is because, like, for example, my parents, they've they've come from. They came from Sri Lanka due to the war and they had to start their life from scratch here, right, and so they didn't like know english, like they didn't know anything, and they have to like sort of build their whole life again like from all of that, and so they had to you know blood, sweat and tears. You know try and like give, like me and my brother, like you know, the best possible life here. So, because of like that amount of work they've given us and you know they expect us obviously to do well in life. So that's sort of like things like in my mind.

Speaker 2: 23:44

I have to make sure, you know, I make them proud, so that's like that sort of fear of failure is like always like in my mind, you know um. But yeah, I think overcoming it it's still like a hard journey, like for some reason, for some people it's not that easy, you know, to have that sort of positive self-talk, you know um. But sometimes I just try and think like how much, like how much I've grown and you know I've overcome all of that and like things will get better. I just need to have a bit of a more like stronger you, you know mindset, but I just tell myself that I should be proud with how far I've come, like in this process. So yeah, you definitely should.

Speaker 1: 24:18

I'm not like getting tortured Just based on that thing. You did mention it briefly. But if you wouldn't mind giving just some advice to other young women that might be struggling with feelings of maybe imp plaster syndrome or like they're not doing enough, like what advice would you give to them?

Speaker 2: 24:33

um, I just feel like obviously they always say there's always like a positive light at the end of the tunnel, and I think that is true and you should just believe in yourself, because if you just put that negative self-talk on you, you feel like you're not going to go anywhere, you're still going to be stuck in that same position and I know there's going to be like blips along the way, like rejections and stuff, but they always say like rejection is always a redirection right, and there will be like a better opportunity for you, like somewhere.

Speaker 2: 24:58

And like even for me when applying for jobs, internships, like it never went my way and I felt like I kept telling myself I wish I'd applied to this, I wish I'd applied to that and tried a bit more.

Speaker 2: 25:09

But then all of that sort of combined as well to make me then think about let me start my own project, you know, and help other people, and so for it to become like such a like a big project that I didn't even think like. Really now it's like a year, a year and a bit now since I launched it. Now thinking about like back then I wouldn't even think like oh my gosh, it would grow this big now. So, yeah, I just feel like just keep believing in yourself and you know the right thing will come to you. Just need to keep working hard, just not give up. Like if you have the determination and you've got the passion for it, then just go with it. Just don't let other people you know messed up in your head like if you think you can do it, you should just do it that was wonderful.

Speaker 1: 25:48

I killed it beautiful. Thank you so much. I mean just any last advice for students that are maybe interested in something that maybe their biology teacher isn't going forth on or just like their teacher isn't like expanding on it as much as they would like, for example, biology self-general therapy. What advice would you have for those students that maybe think, well, my teacher hasn't gone that far into it, maybe I should just pause?

Speaker 2: 26:18

How would you guess motivate them to find their own path and really study what they're after? Yeah, I think, um, obviously I think now is going to be much popular in terms of stem cell regenerative therapies. But if like, yeah, if you still feel like, if students still feel like, oh, it's too brief, I want to know more, they're obviously like you should do your own research at home. Like that's what I did. Like as soon as I heard about heard about it, I just went home and I was like let me type it up and like read all about it sort of thing. Um, so just research it online and just finding there's like there's like so many talks now that goes on about them. So I was like just finding those opportunities.

Speaker 2: 26:42

There's like so many free, you know events that you can go to Um and it's gain new knowledge like outside of what you're doing. Just go out there and just, you know, do it for your own thing and not for your, just for your study. Like if you're actually interested, just go um. Yeah, I think the main thing is like going to talk like I'm so glad I went to those talks back in high school, because I don't think if I didn't, then again I probably wouldn't have known that much knowledge into, like stem cells, um, and hopefully, I mean I hope there's like obviously opportunities out there like to do lab work in stem cells as well. That's also another big thing. Hands-on experience is very important. Yeah, I think it's just mainly just doing your own research and just finding opportunities out there. There's so many like opportunities right now. Thank you so much for your time. I really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you so much.